Condor Watch Talk

Carcass vs carcass

  • Shiphrah by Shiphrah

    ACW0000m0s

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  • Shiphrah by Shiphrah

    The carcass on the right makes it plain how important it is to be able to cut through the hide. I'm gradually coming to realize the meaning of some comments I saw about this earlier. I wonder if those ravens can get much out of that other carcass, once they've grabbed the eyes. I wonder how often we mark a condor "within reach" when it can touch the hide but can't really get much. I suppose that's why they and their cousins have naked heads and necks - so much easier to reach way into a hole in the hide rather than try to cut another one. I've seen comments about the eagles being able to cut the hide with their sharp beaks and claws, making holes others can use when they leave, coyotes cracking bones. Within Reach and Able to Eat are two different things . . .

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  • wreness by wreness moderator

    Great observation and comment! There's more on the boards here and there about this but this is a great chance to put it all in once place 😃

    It's a pretty amazing bit of team work between all of the animals and we're lucky enough to be seeing it here on the photos on CondorWatch.

    Scavengers don't have the deadly speed and power that the Hunters do since they don't have to track and kill their food - and that's what many think of as "eating." They're just as efficient as eating on their own terms, though!

    Sometimes you'll see cuts made into the carcasses to help get it started, or parts actually removed due to something on the Donator's end. Remember, too, these things are ...uh...decomposing and rotting out there. Things are leaking and expanding and ...well, you know where I'm going here. Ew. Give it a little while and we're not talking a tough, intact cow by any means.

    Usually the first to find a carcass (whatever that may be and however it became one, from an intact animal that died of natural causes to a mess of some kind of road kill...) are the ravens. They have great eyesight and smell so are quick to find things. Being loud and large in numbers it takes no time at all for every raven within earshot to come and get a free meal. Raven's beaks are powerful jackhammers that punch into hide. As they're often the first ones the scene, they're happy to grab the choice parts - eyeballs, tongue and well - naughty bits - the parts everyone would grab if they could since they're soft and easy to get at.

    This also applies to any easy entryways - bullet holes, ears, other body cavities - you know what I'm saying here - eye sockets, mouths, ear, the back end, etc. Why do work when you don't have to? Ravens helpfully enlarge the holes, yanking things out to eat and would be happy to keep going in this manner but being opportunists, they are also happy to stand aside when any larger animal comes along to make life easier for them. Their favorite thing is to carry off pieces of food they can steal and run away. (Ravens will also go grab bags out of McDonald's parking lots to steal French Fries. This is not a choosy eater, nor proud. I'm just sayin'.)

    As mentioned and as you've seen, ravens are a loud bunch, so the noise eventually brings other animals.

    Condors have no sense of smell and so find their food by using their amazing eyesight and hearing. They're powerful birds with incredibly sharp, strong beaks and legs. They use the entry holes (and unfortunately bullet holes) as starter points like the ravens. I'm sure you've seen photos of them pulling backwards with their powerful wings/feet to rip off the hide. And yes, this is why scavengers like Condors and Vultures have bald heads and necks - so they can access "in there" and all that blood and goo doesn't stick to them. This is seen in all scavenger species like turkey vultures and vultures, too. Evolution is a beautiful thing. 😛

    Coyotes will pull bite-size chunks out of carcasses, throwing it all over the place and making a mess. Those teeth and jaws are powerful and more easy to imagine how they'd get their work done since we're familiar with how dogs "work"; especially the strong breeds like pit bulls or even wolves.

    You've seen the Golden Eagles with their incredible talons and beaks, who unzip chests like surgeons.

    Mountain Lions don't even need to be explained here - they are scary powerful and there's no question they own the place when they are at a carcass. We have a series of photos of one who spent days eating and then covering up the carcass so he could continue to save it all for himself. These are the killing machines that don't play around.

    So "Within Reach" is also "Able To Eat" for any scavenger. This is what the scavengers do - they're Nature's clean up crew. They are built differently with a whole evolutionary set of digestive chemicals to handle poisons and toxins that would kill other animals who were eating what they ate. A job in the chain of things - a slower, different process than that of an animal that hunts and kills to eat. If not for the scavengers we'd be up to our eyeballs in roadkill.

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  • Shiphrah by Shiphrah

    Wow! Thanks for the detailed explanation. Please post it somewhere noticeable - I'm sure others would be interested.

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  • wreness by wreness moderator in response to Shiphrah's comment.

    You bet 😉 That's what the boards are for and luckily people like you who ask great questions! 😃 I think this is posted somewhere else, too, but it was in the earlier days so might have scrolled to the bottom of some folder. Could be a good topic for a Blog in the future...thanks for the idea! I'll suggest it.

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  • inaspin by inaspin

    And - in case anyone is interested, it took 10 days from initial (road) kill to empty skin/bones for an adult donkey. The predators were dingos and wedge-tailed eagles. Maximum of 12 eagles observed at one sitting. Ravens noticeably absent... No condors 😦

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  • DZM by DZM admin in response to inaspin's comment.

    Dingoes? You mean coyotes, right? Dingoes don't live where condors do! 😃

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  • wreness by wreness moderator in response to DZM's comment.

    No, I'm sure we're talking dingoes 😃 inaspin lives in Australia! 😃

    The common thread is that no matter where they live, all predators and scavengers eat like ...well...pigs. I'd love to know how much that donkey weighed because it seems like less than 12 condors take only a few days to eat a cow that would weigh about 4x as much as a donkey? There's way, way too much math in this and my head is already doing that thing like in "The Terminator" where numbers are flashing behind my eyes.

    Wedge tailed eagles are stunningly beautiful and dingoes are so vicious they are scary, yet I know someone who claims to have had one as a pet (here in the U.S.) Never verified that, and he also cheated, really big time, at darts so I'm suspicious about this claim.

    Next time we need photos or a link, of anyone has Gross Carcass News, please. That's half the fun! Thanks Inaspin !! 😃

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  • inaspin by inaspin

    Hi wreness - the donkey was an adult male, so I'd guess at about 500 lbs. Cows approx.1400 to 2500 pounds depending on breed, so your maths was pretty spot on. No telling who was dining after hours! And, yes, the predators started in at all the usual places.
    12 was maximum number of eagles observed - more often it was 3 to 6. It looked like when they were full, they went off to perch in the nearest "tall" tree. It was in desert conditions.
    Quite right DZM - no condors here; but we have hawks, kites and falcons in addition to the eagles and some pretty owls ready to do clean-up duty

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