Condor Watch Talk

Condor Watch and Wikipedia.

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    I've just added a paragraph on Condor Watch to the article 'California condor' on Wikipedia. I also added a paragraph to the article 'List of crowdsourcing projects'. I am an experienced Wikipedian and when browsing the California Condor article, I noticed there wasn't a ref to Condor Watch, which seemed a valuable opportunity missed. So I wrote, using 3 refs,:

    "A crowdsourcing project called 'Condor Watch' was started on April 14th 2014, hosted by the web portal Zooniverse. Volunteers are asked to examine motion-capture images from the Pinnacles National Park, in northern California, of California Condors. The tasks on the website include identifying California condors and marking the distance to feeding sources such as animal carcasses. The project's frontpage explains that the California condor is a critically endangered species and that its population is suffering from the effects of lead poisoning. The frontpage also explains that by tracking the location and social behavior of the animals scientists can better detect early warning signs of the illness." There is also some additions in the Talk section of the article.

    I hope this is not an unwelcome addition to Wikipedia and can of course be removed at anytime. There are also links in 'List of Citizen Science projects' and in the 'Zooniverse' article from beforehand.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_condor

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crowdsourcing_projects

    Posted

  • myraf by myraf scientist

    Wow, thanks Rick! This is a wonderful idea! The only very small edit I would suggest if it isn't too much trouble is that we have images from the three release sites in California (Pinnacles National Park, the Big Sur area, and also in Southern California in and around the Hopper Mountain National Wildlife Complex). It might be easier to just say something like this:
    "...to examine motion-capture images of California Condors associated with condor release sites managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service and Ventana Wildlife Society ."

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    Ok I'll change the sentence as you wish. I'm tentative about doing too much too quickly, as someone will be looking after the article, so we should try to keep people on our side rather than rush in. Hopefully there can be a liitle mini-section for Condor Watch soon. Any pictures will have to come from existing Wiki articles. People need to be convinced it's not a commercial thing as well. But yeah, foot-in-the-door and all that.

    Big Sur looks nice! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sur

    Posted

  • myraf by myraf scientist

    Hi Rick, use your judgement - I will confess I use Wikipedia but know nothing about how it works in terms of adding info. We are just excited to have another place to advertise Condor Watch! thank you so much! And, let us know if you come to the Big Sur area - it is beautiful and especially if you see a condor flying overhead!

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    What you can do is use your influence to enable me to upload the picture(s) found on the UCSC press release by Tim Stephens, please. These are credited to the Pinnacles National Park and Ventana Wildlife Society. In order for the pictures to be used, those credited would have to be willing to release them under the Creative Commons license 3.0. This means they could be used by anyone for anything and for commercial purposes (Wiki can make any article into a book). The Credited may not want to do that, but you could explain that the pictures are already in the public domain by being on the PR.

    The Credited might also have to communicate with Wiki to some extent and me via email. Obviously its for a good cause, but there might be copyright issues etc. It would help the article somewhat (I've expanded the paragraphs by adding some info on Citizen Science). I do enjoy editing Wiki and recently re-wrote the Galaxy Zoo article, which Chris describes as looking 'pretty good'.

    As for getting over to the West Coast, it doesn't seem likely! I guess I'm stuck in Bristol UK for the foreseeable future.

    Posted

  • myraf by myraf scientist

    Hi Rick,. I will ask about the photos. I am sure it would be fine to use them but I will check. I can see that if you are on Bristol a trip to the West Coast would be a challenge, but if you do make it someday let us know!

    Posted

  • wreness by wreness moderator

    Awesome Idea, Rick 😃

    I'm sure you've already seen there is a Wiki page on the Ventana Wildlife Society
    and Pinnacle National Park.

    The photos on the pages, from the Commons (and elsewhere, as you pointed out) are always individual's work and have to be uploaded to the Common's by the copyright holder, then to be used. Ways' I've "got around it" on a Wiki article or two I've helped edit was just to mention the person's work and then hyperlink out to the press release or National Park web site, etc. That way they're not "on" wiki and they maintain their copyright and you're getting them publicity.

    You probably know all this though 😃

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    First, thanks for the comments so far. What I don't want to do is introduce bad feeling over some photos; that's not a good way to proceed. I really need to have the consent of the Credited in writing to start the process as I'm sure we all want everything to be done correctly. With this in mind, I've emailed Joe Burnett at the Ventana WS to ask him for his advice. Hopefully he can answer one way or another. Then perhaps I need to email the Pinnacle NP. Condor Watch is a high profile project and if the photos can't be used, then so be it.

    There are other licences, but they usually mean that a smaller image has to be used. Also, Wiki likes to provide 'free content'- I had experience of images being deleted recently on two GZ-related articles, due to a non-commercial clause that the Sloan Digital Sky Survey use. Frustrating! Anyway, there's no hurry and thank goodness for emails! Hopefully the problem will be resolved over the coming days or weeks to everyone's satisfaction. Fingers crossed.

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    Just as some info, according to the 'page view statistics', California Condor gets approx 350 visitors a day, which seems a huge amount. Who these visitors are is not clear.
    http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/California_condor

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    If there are any specialists in the evolutionary history of the California Condor, then the Wiki article really needs some help, as there seems to be conflicting info. Hildegarde (1947) or Syverson (2007)? Not in my comfort zone in any way...

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    ZooCon in Portsmouth (U.K.) this weekend with 'remote participation' and a 'wikithon'. Time difference might be an issue if any Condor Watchers would like to get involved but hey! it is the weekend!.

    http://blog.zooniverse.org/2014/09/09/zoocon-portsmouth-this-weekend-remote-participation-invited/

    Posted

  • ElisabethB by ElisabethB moderator

    There are some condor Watchers from this side of the pond as well ! 😄

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    Just to point out that Condor Watch has its own little section in the Wiki article:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_condor#Condor_Watch

    Seems a good way to proceed, rather than having a whole article which might not attract as many possible participants. There's a Condor Watch logo as well which helps I think, though having a photo from the actual site would be a bonus.

    Comments to aid expansion are always welcome. Statistics are good if anybody has any that are citeable (no blogs).

    ![Condor Watch logo] (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Avatar_condors.jpg)

    Posted

  • ElisabethB by ElisabethB moderator

    Nice ! Tx Rick for pointing this out ! 😄

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    Excellent! Yes, that's a great place to add Condor Watch information to Wikipedia, and I doubt that the Wiki mods would have any issue with it.

    Every bit of information helps, and hopefully we can attract some more people! (To that end, I went ahead and added an external link to the page.)

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N. in response to DZM's comment.

    Ah yes, best intentions and all that, but you've got to know the rules! External links within the text are frowned upon and should be unnecessary anyway (use refs). The External links section at the bottom of the article should only have a couple (WP:minimise external links) which is why I've deleted round half of them over the last few months- there are still 11 which is probably too many.

    Also, as you are a member of the Zooniverse team, you should not be editing text that you are involved within; this might introduce bias (WP:NPOV). If you want to introduce an idea, best start a section within 'Talk' and let a third party add it to the article (if deemed worthy). This is a serious issue really and oft overlooked or abused.

    Chris L. has steadfastly refused to be involved in any editing on WP with GZ or Zooniverse, which should be acknowledged and applauded. If you look at his actual WP page (fame), you might note that he introduces ideas on the 'Talk' page, but lets a third party amend the main article (or not); people don't use 'Talk' enough IMHO.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lintott

    So, apart from all that, anyone can edit WP! Just be prepared for the fact it might get deleted. By the way, my editing name is Richard Nowell, which is my real one. There are some who think there shouldn't be anonymous editing (rows of numerals), but that is impracticable.

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    Oh, yes, of course. Sorry, and thanks for the heads-up!

    All that I did was add the external link, but if that's still bad Wiki-etiquette on two fronts, I sincerely apologize and thank you (or whomever) for removing it. It looks like now it's not a link at all, which is good.

    Thanks again!

    Posted

  • Rick_N. by Rick_N.

    Have added stats from poster presentation to article, as they are worthy and reliable. The scientists involved are properly credited of course. I think it gives the project a set of stats that passing readers might latch on to: 'Hey, at least ~8,600 others have taken part; why not me?' Worth a go...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_condor#Condor_Watch

    Posted

  • ElisabethB by ElisabethB moderator

    Thanks Rick ! It is good to have someone who knows the wiki etiquette ! 😄

    Posted

  • myraf by myraf scientist

    Yes, thanks Rick! I love that CondorWatch has a wiki expert and that is great to add the presentation data! One of these days (well months or years more likely) we will have a journal article to add as well!

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    And I love that Condor Watch has a strong presence in the Wiki article on the California Condor!

    Definitely looking forward to being able to add that journal article to the sources. 😄

    Posted