Condor Watch Talk

For scientist person - abused condor?

  • wreness by wreness moderator

    I just got this photo and remembered I'd seen this condor before - two months ago I posted a photo I got of this same bird, so I went and found it. As it turns out, that photo was taken 8 minutes before the one I got today.

    Is this condor sick? The thought before was maybe it was molting, but it looked as if the other birds were picking on it (which is why I posted it originally - he looked like he was being abused) Now that I see this other view it sure looks like the feathers are wet and torn. 😦

    Why would other condors do this? Or what would cause this? Do you know anything about this bird? (yellow16)

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  • mboschmd by mboschmd

    That bird is definitely missing feathers, and the location suggests either the condor itself is pulling them out (a stress reaction...see it a lot in really smart birds like macaws that have been mistreated by their owners), or another bird is going Alpha towards it. I used to raise bobwhite quails, and we had to keep their upper beaks clipped to prevent this feather-yanking by other birds. Least likely is mating behavior, because the pair would have to have nymphomania and satyriasis to pull out THAT many feathers. I think the males grab on with their beaks to steady themselves, but normally they wouldn't yank feathers out. Somebody is mad at this bird. Fortunately, the skin looks good, and there's no scabs or blood. I don't think the posture is worrisome cuz in the photo taken six minutes later, she's standing normally, and looking at the carcass and is prolly going to pick at the hole with the blood coming out...I bet s/he made it. The bright facial expression and eyes are a good thing. Feathers don't look wet to me. It would be interesting to know Y16's sex; if it's male, then I think it's a dominance issue.

    Or, in my ignorance, it's the final physical finding on birds about to die from lead poisoning 😦

    You see this a lot in chickens, where the alpha rooster decides that beta boy needs a lesson. I've seen photos where the dominant rooster has denuded the bird completely, and the skanky thing goes about it's business like nothing's wrong.

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  • zekazoo by zekazoo scientist

    So great when we can compare and contrast photos in a series! Thank you wrenness for your attention to time stamps and excellent detective work. And thank you miltonbosch for your thoughtful response. While I don't have personal knowledge of this bird's social or breeding status during the time of this photo, I agree with both of you that there may have been some trauma involved of the loosening of these feathers. I should say, it is also possible that wind or a wing shake could also result in the feather flipping we see in the earlier photo, since it only looks like one feather is loose in the later photo. I don't know the sex of this bird (I will check the studbook tomorrow and get back to you both on this), but in condors the male does stand on the back of the female during copulation. Since the bird seems to be gaining access to the carcass, I am not too worried about the overall health of the bird. That being said, he/she is only competing with juvenile birds in these shots, which should allow an older bird into the feeding circle regardless of its standing among the breeding age birds.

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  • wreness by wreness moderator

    Thanks for your answer, zekazoo!

    Yellow 16 is a "she" (yay). I think it looked so menacing because on the 1st photo it looked like the other condors were ganging up on her. I don't have the photo comment URL but I think others remarked about this, too.

    I know they sit on their knees like that if they're full or resting but the way those ravens were all turned and the Juvenile was walking towards her, it looked nefarious (and we all think ravens are up to no good anyway.) When I saw the wing tag was upside down in the 2nd picture I thought of that metal clamp on the top (is it attached through their radius?) and wondered if something was broken for it to flip like that. If it's from mating, all I have to say to that is "woah". :x It's so great we can see things like this and ask you about them!

    milton: (and anyone else too!)
    - the URL for the bios is:

    http://www.condorwatch.org/#/condors/PutBioNumberHere

    example:
    http://www.condorwatch.org/#/condors/216 --- our gal, yellow16

    I used to have a hyacinth Macaw .. amazing bird but yes, I have seen many large birds chew themselves up because owners didn't know how much time and interaction intelligent birds need. Some people shouldn't even be allowed to own goldfish.

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  • zekazoo by zekazoo scientist

    I'm glad I was able to help clear away a little bit of the mystery! And a note on wingtags:

    Wing tags and radio/gps tags are mounted on what's called a patagial piercing. It's somewhat similar to an ear piercing without the cartilage in the way. However, as you can imagine, these holes can stretch out over time, allowing tag movement and increasing risk of this equipment snagging and causing injury. The progression of patagial hole stretch is closely monitored during the bi-annual trap-ups. and equipment is moved to the other wing when needed. If holes are large enough to allow, tag-flipping, then the condor may need surgery to repair the patagial hole. Luckily this is not too common, but it is important to notice and report this type of observation. So thank you!

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  • wreness by wreness moderator

    Glad you mentioned that - I have seen a few "crooked" ones and I'm sure others have, also. Just didn't know if it had a thing to do with anything or if, due to the time of the photo, if the problem has been corrected and there isn't any need to point it out. We're also sure we've seen condors with no tags (of course keeping in mind that we can be seeing the wing without the tag) when seeing juveniles or condors from the front or back and clear shots of both wing tops - but no tag GPS antennae or bulges, clip-tops or forms. The question was asked before what is done if a tag is totally knocked off and lost.

    Here's another that was found by stonepenny today - half torn off.

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  • zekazoo by zekazoo scientist

    I actually just crafted a response to the question on tagless birds here.

    It is possible for tags to fall off. I myself have found a dropped tag on the ground of a feeding site! These birds are usually trapped within the year for a tag replacement.

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